Tried Tested & Still Together: Marriage Wisdom from the Bible's Imperfect Couples_Dana Che

What if the tension in your marriage isn't a sign you married the wrong person — but an invitation to know God more deeply? Dana Che, host of the popular: Rebuilding Us Podcast and author of Tried and True: Marriage Advice from 12 Imperfect Biblical Couples, joins Rhonda to talk about the "long middle" of marriage — that stuck, stalled, going-through-the-motions season so many couples quietly endure. You'll walk away with fresh eyes on why couples drift apart, how contempt silently kills a marriage, and how spiritual intimacy is the missing piece that holds everything else together. Real talk. Real scripture. Real hope.

Rebuilding Us Podcast

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Dana's Book: Tried and True: Marriage Advice from 12 Imperfect Biblical Couples 

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"This podcast is for the purpose of mentoring only and is not a replacement for therapy. We suggest you seek out the help of a trained biblical counselor for help with your specific situation.”

Transcript

Rhonda Stoppe [00:00:01]:
Good morning, friends, and welcome to another episode of Old Ladies Know Stuff. I just woke up, so I have a gravelly voice. I had a rough night. I'll share with you, a family member passed away last night, and so I'm a little, uh, not myself. But I did not want to miss this opportunity to have you meet my next guest. I was on her show yesterday, and she's precious, and her book that she has written is really goes alongside of My Moms of the Bible. She has the same heart that I do to get y'all in the book. So without further ado, I'm going to introduce to you my next guest.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:00:39]:
Her name is Dana Che, and it's spelled C-H-E, but I love the pronunciation. And she is an author that I want you to meet. She is a marriage coach, a speaker, and a host of The Rebuilding Us podcast. It's ranked in the top 2% globally. That's pretty amazing. She's known for facilitating honest, thoughtful conversations about relationship— relationships, excuse me, faith and commitment. With decades of marriage experience and years spent coaching couples through conflict, infidelity, recovery, blended family dynamics, and spiritual disconnection, Dana brings a grounded pastoral voice to topics many couples struggle to name. Her work centers on helping couples navigate the disappointment and disconnection.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:01:32]:
Drawing from scripture and real-life application, Dana equips audiences with language and frameworks that foster clarity, connection, and growth. Her approach is faith-rooted, practical, and relatable, making her a trusted voice for podcasts, television segments, conferences, and church settings seeking meaningful dialogue about marriage and resilience. And I wanna talk to you today about her brand new book, Tried and True: Marriage Advice from 12 Imperfect Biblical Couples. So please help me welcome my guest, Dana Che. Good morning.

Dana Che [00:02:16]:
Good morning, Rhonda. I am so thrilled to be with you today.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:02:19]:
I'm so happy that you're able to join me. Uh, we are just going to jump right in because I want to hear all about you. So tell me real quick, who is Dana Che?

Dana Che [00:02:29]:
You know, I always say I'm first and foremost a daughter of the Lord. I met Jesus when I was a young child, and it was a real salvation experience. It wasn't like a raise your hand if you want a piece of candy, you know, and get saved in church. It was like I really met the Lord as a child. I I fell in love with Jesus. I attribute, which is why I love your book so much, I attribute a lot of my early discipleship to my mom. My mom is a lover of the word. She discipled us.

Dana Che [00:02:55]:
She didn't drop us off at church and, you know, expect the church to teach us. We grew up in a great church, Bible-believing church, but my mom really took it upon herself to teach us about the Lord. And so I was really, you know, strong with the Lord up until my teens, and then I kind of fell off, you know. I, I Didn't do anything like major, but the Lord stopped becoming my priority and my boyfriend did. And so I started dating my now husband when I was 14 years old, and we got— I got pregnant when I was first semester in college. I was only 17 years old. And so we had our first child. And as I was sharing with you when you were on my show, you know, we— I come from a lineage of teen pregnancy and divorce.

Dana Che [00:03:40]:
And so unfortunately, I kind of continued that pattern, became a mom at 17. 2019. And I am so thankful that the Lord does not forget us even when we forget about him. And he rescued my life, and I rededicated my life to him when I was 21 years old. And it's just been like, whoosh, like full, full fire, you know, since then. Um, obviously ups and downs, this is Christian life, is, but I have not looked back. And so since then, uh, the Lord has blessed my husband and I with 3 more children. Um, 3 of which have now flown the nest.

Dana Che [00:04:13]:
So we've got 1 more left at home, and, uh, we'll celebrate 27 years of marriage in July of this year.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:04:20]:
Oh, I love that. A lot of my listeners, you're hearing this and you're knowing in your own heart you have a daughter, granddaughter that made a commitment to Christ at one point and then wandered. And I love your story because it offers such hope for the mothers and the grandmothers that are listening. Um, and for those of you that have little ones, how to be praying for them, but I just love your story and it offers so much hope. So let's jump right into your book, Tried and True Marriage Advice from 12 Imperfect Couples, honest conversations about marriage beyond clichés and quick fixes. I love that. This work explores the often overlooked long middle of marriage. Where expectations collide with reality, disappointment lingers, and love must be chosen again and again.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:05:16]:
With faith-rooted insights and practical wisdom, couples will learn to strengthen communication, deepen spiritual intimacy, and build a connection that endures over time. So let's just jump right into this book. What do you mean by the long middle of marriage? And why do you think so many couples get stuck there?

Dana Che [00:05:36]:
Yeah, so the middle of marriage is this place where things are not horrific, they're not necessarily falling apart, you're not about to file divorce papers, but they're also not great. They're not what you imagine marriage to be or what you expected marriage to be. So it's kind of this, this middle, this like, you know, I mean, on a scale from 1 to 10, it's like, uh, like a 6 or 7. We're okay. And I really find that with a lot of the couples that I coach, it's usually not the big things, Rhonda, that, that couples divorce over. It's not the adultery or the abuse or the addiction. Like, those things happen. But where most couples find themselves is— and we hear this all the time— we just grew apart, or we just fell out of love.

Dana Che [00:06:18]:
And so I started to think, Lord, how do we take couples that are in that middle season? A lot of parents, you know, that you've heard of gray divorce, right? Like, when your kids start leaving, and then it's like, well, what do we have in common now? Like, we don't have kids to take back and forth to practice, we don't have schedules to manage, your life revolved around your children's activities, and so now you don't know your spouse anymore. There's, there's nothing binding you together, and that's where a lot of couples will go their separate ways. So my desire was to help couples who are in that middle season of marriage, whether you've been married— because the middle doesn't necessarily mean you've only been married for 10 or 11 years. You could be married for 40 years and be in the middle, or you can be married for 2 months and be in the middle. But it's, it's really a mindset of Do we really believe that God wants us to have extraordinary marriages that reflect his kingdom? Or do we think that God just wants us to kind of acquiesce to just mundane, ordinary? And I know for me, I'm like, Lord, I don't want— I want everything that you have for me. I don't want to leave this earth leaving anything behind. And so if your desire is that my marriage prospers and that my marriage reflects the kingdom, teach me how to do that. And that's really who this book was written to.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:07:32]:
Yes. And honestly, that's what I say. Steve was a youth pastor for 18 years, a senior pastor for 25 years. We want our marriages to reflect Christ's love so that it is a light that draws our children and the watching world to want to know our Savior. And Satan knows, let me just get them into that mundane, you know, apathy is your enemy. Maybe you're not going to file for divorce, but just be status quo. That's all. So it doesn't shine brightly.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:07:59]:
So your kids don't leave your house and say, I want a marriage like my parents. I want to emulate my parents' marriage or my grandparents' marriage. That's Satan. He can, he can, man, can he steal, kill, and destroy just from the hypocrisy. You know, you drive up to church, mom and dad are not speaking to each other because of some, you know, he forgot to take the garbage out or whatever. And then they walk into the church and they go, hi sister, love ya. And they seem super happy. And then they get back in the car and the kids see this iceberg between them, that hypocrisy.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:08:34]:
The number one thing that drives our kids away from Christ is the hypocrisy in their Christian homes. And our marriages can be that hypocritical, or they can be the light that draws them. So thank you for that. So why do you think that couples often interpret tension or conflict as failure instead of formation?

Dana Che [00:08:52]:
I think because that's what we've been taught. We've been taught that, especially as believers, that conflict is the enemy, that Jesus walked around with a smile plastered on his face every day. And never had conflict with anyone. All it takes is just a quick read and you will see that Jesus faced conflict a lot. And he teaches us, if we read the scriptures, how to navigate that. So I think that depending on how you were raised, like, you know, often say my husband was raised in a home where he never really saw conflict. He had a stepfather, a great godly man, from the time he was 11. But his mom and stepfather never argued or had conflict in front of him.

Dana Che [00:09:28]:
So my husband did not know how to handle conflict. He was afraid of it. Me, on the other hand, I grew up in a very dysfunctional home, lots of abuse and violence and yelling and all of that. And so I saw conflict handled the, you know, all the wrong ways. So here we are getting married and it's, it's a, it's chaos, obviously. And so it took a long time to realize that conflict can actually be your teacher. It can form you. And this is why I say it's, it's more formational than it is, um, something that is meant to drive a wedge between you.

Dana Che [00:10:01]:
It's how we respond to it. So you can look— and I was having a conversation with my daughter, she's 23. I was talking to her last night because she's having some conflict at work, and I was like, Kayla— and I know we both shared the same, both of our daughter's names are Kayla— and I was like, Kayla, you can look at what is happening to you and you can be a victim of what's happening to you, and you can stew and you can be mad at this person, or you can say, Lord, what are you trying to teach me about myself? Do I need to stand up for myself here, or do I need to fall back and allow this person to, to, to do what they're doing and just trust that you're gonna, you're gonna fix that, you're gonna come in, you're gonna be gracious. Would you allow me to be gracious to this person? I said, have you prayed for this person? Which is hard. Like, we don't want to pray for people who are being mean to us, you know? But the scripture says, like, pray for those who despitefully use you, like, pray for your enemies. And so this is what I try to remind myself, like, my husband is not my enemy. He is my friend. He is God's gift to me.

Dana Che [00:10:59]:
And so when he's doing something that is causing conflict, or when I'm doing something when there's conflict in our marriage, can I look at this as, God, how are you forming me? How are you trying to shape me through this? Versus, you know, he's the enemy, stay away from me.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:11:13]:
I love that. I just sat with my two granddaughters, a 10 and an 11-year-old, two days ago and explained that very thing to them. Iron sharpens iron, and that God gives us each other because when we bump up against each other, sparks fly. But it's also sharpening our sword for God's use. And honestly, when we talk like that with our littles, it teaches them conflict is not something to hold on to, to run from, to stir up. I came from a long line of conflict, and I had a sister who loved conflict, 14 months older than I was, and she loved to stir it up. I'm a middle child— make me invisible.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:11:53]:
My brother and my sister on either side of me would go at it, and I would like plug my ears and sit on the couch with my eyes closed. So I'm a runner from conflict. So having to engage in that. And because I also watched the silent treatment in my parents' marriage for 30 years, they were teen mom and dad. They, after 30 years of marriage, it blew up and they got a divorce because they didn't fight. They just didn't talk. So I love your book and I love those insights about how conflict can be good if we let it hone us and let God transform us through I mean, honestly, when I get bumped, what spills out of me is what God wants to show me he wants to change in me, right? If I'm offensive or prideful or, um, all the things. So tell me about what these Bible couples can teach us about modern marriage struggles.

Dana Che [00:12:43]:
Yeah, you know, I love the word of God so much. I think that a lot of times we're looking for like what's new, we're looking for like all of these— what does psychology say about these things? And I'm pro-psychology, I think that there's a lot of wisdom there. But there's a scripture in Jeremiah um, that says, ask me for the ancient paths. Stand at the crossroads and look. Ask me for the ancient paths, the good way. And there, there is an ancient path that we can find through scripture that speaks to modern marriages today. When I thought about these couples, and when the Lord really gave me the couples to go in these, in this book, I thought, wow, Lord, I see myself in almost every single one of them at some season. In my life, you know.

Dana Che [00:13:25]:
So whether it's the Jacob and Leah chapter where we talk about how Leah felt very isolated and alone in her marriage, and she was not Jacob's first choice— Jacob wanted to marry Rachel, um, but how did Leah navigate through that? How did the Lord still bless her? Jesus came through the lineage of Leah, not Rachel. Judah is Leah's son, not Rachel's son. Um, Leah was buried in the family cave. Rachel was buried on the side of the road. And so, yeah, yeah, so it's like, you know, I mean, you know, God bless Rachel, but Leah, the Lord watched after her and looked after her even though she was unloved by her husband. And that just, it gives me great hope, um, to know that there are seasons in my marriage where I've maybe felt like I'm unimportant, or maybe my husband isn't seeing me. I feel unseen, I feel unappreciated, I feel all the uns. But the Lord is our vindicator, and the Lord will be our defender.

Dana Che [00:14:21]:
Um, so whether it's that chapter or whether it's looking at a chapter, like David and Michal, who, you know, Michal had a lot of contempt for David, um, and rightfully so. Like, you can look at the story and see, like, she was mistreated by really her father, King Saul, who kind of threw her around like a human yo-yo. Um, but that caused her to have so much contempt for, for David. And contempt— John Gottman, Dr. John Gottman, actually says that contempt is the number one predictor of divorce. So I'm like, oh wow, Lord, you know, if I'm spending all this time, like, judging my husband, being angry at him for his flaws or his faults, walking in unforgiveness, that unforgiveness is going to turn into bitterness, which is going to turn into contempt, which is going to be the death of my marriage. So how do I navigate feeling misunderstood, or maybe even something happening that was unfair, and not allow my heart to grow cold and bitter toward my husband? So there, there's so many things. Again, these couples were not perfect, like they had issues, a lot of issues.

Dana Che [00:15:21]:
But there's so many things in scripture that teach us today, because the word of God, it doesn't change, right? God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Humans are also the same yesterday, today, and forever. We've been messing up from the beginning. So I just love the word because it's like God's like, here's, here's the wisdom, here's the truth, it doesn't change, just read it.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:15:42]:
Yeah, yeah. I wanted to read that scripture that you just referred to. I have King James open in my phone Bible. Jeremiah 6:16: Thus saith the Lord, stand ye in the ways and see and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. Yes, but they said— this makes you cry— we will not walk therein. Pay attention, ladies. This is God's truth. He, he has written these things for our admonition, for our learning.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:16:21]:
He wants us to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. He wants the word of God, which is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, to be what we feast upon, not our scrolling and those little tidbits that we get in social media. Some put— somebody puts up a little Bible verse here and there. Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. That's where your strength lies. That's where this book— I love that you take us to real people, real accounts in biblical times that God put in scripture. Number one, for us to learn from their stories. Number two, for us to learn God's character from how he reveals it in history and in scripture.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:17:05]:
Thank you so much for sharing that. So how can couples stay connected when disappointment becomes chronic? And I'm going to ask you this too: what does choosing love look like when feelings don't easily follow?

Dana Che [00:17:21]:
Yeah, I love talking about this, Rhonda, because, you know, choosing love— like, love is a choice. Love is not a feeling, right? And this is what society wants us to believe, that we— if I don't feel love for my spouse, then I don't have to continue to be married to them, or if I don't feel loved by my spouse, then I get to choose how I want to handle that. But love is not a feeling. Love is a choice. And we have to choose every day that I am going to love whether I feel like it or not. Obedience first, and then the feelings follow after. Um, my husband and I, we have a, you know, our— we have infidelity in our story, and I write about that in chapter 9 where I talk about Hosea and Gomer. And we kind of had like a double infidelity going one in my late teens.

Dana Che [00:18:10]:
I was 19 and I had an affair before I rededicated my life to the Lord. And then my husband had many affairs, so he was kind of caught up in the cycle of infidelity. And it wasn't like I would find out and do nothing. Like, we were in therapy, we were working through things, and then things would be good, and then he would almost like relapse, and then something would happen and he would— and then I was like, okay Lord, I'm done. Like, I'm done. This, you know, this this is too much. And I remember like it was yesterday, I was sitting on my bed and I was crying out to the Lord, as I often did, and I was telling the Lord all the things, all the ugly, just bringing it all up. Lord, these are all the things.

Dana Che [00:18:46]:
I'm so thankful that God does not answer every prayer because I've prayed some stuff, you know, like, Lord, take them out, you know, send that Mack truck down the road. And, um, and the Lord did not answer, praise God. But, you know, I had to choose whether I was going to do the right thing, even though I was really not being treated well. And I had to trust the Lord. I did not have a— I did not have a— the go-ahead from the Lord to leave my marriage. Now, biblically, you have that out. Like, the Lord does give us that out in cases where the marital covenant has been broken through adultery. But I was also waiting for the release and the Lord never gave me that release.

Dana Che [00:19:29]:
And I'm very careful when I share this because I don't want a woman to feel like she has to remain in an adulterous marriage. That is not— that is not what I'm saying at all. Um, and there were many a times where I, I felt like, okay Lord, I'm going to leave, this is what I'm going to do. But I also was just waiting for like the go-ahead from the Lord. And what I kept hearing the Lord say— I didn't hear the Lord say don't leave. What I kept hearing the Lord say was trust me, trust me, wait on me, trust me. And I'm like, well, I've been waiting. And this goes back to chapter 2 where Abraham and Sarah had a promise from the Lord and they had to wait for 25 years.

Dana Che [00:20:09]:
Yeah, when they saw nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And that was me. I waited for 13 years for my husband to come really— he was a Christian, quote unquote, but for him to really know the Lord and for him to encounter the Lord and the Lord radically changed his life. But it was 13 years of warring and waiting and trusting God even though I didn't see anything. And so when I talk about love being a choice, that's exactly what I mean. It's— you're not going to feel it, you're not going to want to, but I wanted to please the Lord and I wanted to be obedient. And I had to trust that, Lord, I'm just going to do the right thing and my feelings are going to get in line with that as long as I continue to be obedient.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:20:52]:
And there's just such hope in that. I've been a pastor's wife for many years, and there are some wives that are like, there's my out, I'm gone. You cheated. That's what I was waiting for. I'm gone. And, you know, Jesus said God allowed a divorce because of the hardness of your hearts.

Dana Che [00:21:09]:
Right.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:21:10]:
But I'm also with you. There are wives whose husbands are repeated offenders. There are wives whose husbands have had a secret affair for half their married life. There are wives that have every reason in the world to say, I'll never trust this person as a spouse again. And God gives you a way out of that marriage. But I love your courage. It takes courage to stay. It takes courage to trust the Lord to do the work and then to see the work that God did in your husband.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:21:39]:
And now this book that has come out of, you know, the Bible says we comfort others with the comfort we ourselves have been comforted, when you're telling someone, I know how you feel, you really do know how you feel, how they feel. Um, so what's a common marriage myth that actually harms couples and how can couples disagree and disrespect? I'm sorry, let me ask that again. How can couples disagree without disrespect or contempt?

Dana Che [00:22:06]:
Yeah, I think a common myth that a lot of couples believe is that connection is our default. I actually believe disconnection is our default. One, we're fallen beings and we're inherently selfish. We want what we want and we want it now. And so we've got a war against that. But I often use this analogy of a canoe on a lake. If there is a canoe, let's say there's a canoe that's right up next to a dock, but it's not tethered. It's not tied to that dock.

Dana Che [00:22:33]:
It's just kind of sitting by the dock. Well, when the gentle breezes happen, it doesn't have to be like a gale force wind or a hurricane. Just when the, when the wind happens, that canoe is going to start to drift offshore. It's going to drift, drift, drift, drift, and before you know it, it's going to be in the middle of the ocean somewhere. That is what marriage is. If you are not tethered together, if you are not intentional about binding your hearts and binding yourselves together, you will disconnect. That's just the default of marriage. And so what happens is a lot of couples, they get married, they're in love, right? They're like, just like the pinnacle of their relationship, everything's going great.

Dana Che [00:23:08]:
And then they get married and it starts to fall apart and they don't know what to do. They're like, this wasn't supposed to happen, so I must have married the wrong person, or I must not be in the will of God, or, you know. And so then they will disconnect even further because they weren't— they were not aware that we have to— we have to intentionally connect ourselves because that is not our natural bent. And so when I learned that, that changed so many things. It changed the way I showed up in my marriage. It showed or changed the expectations that I had about my husband. I still have expectations of him, but I stopped looking at him to be perfect. I stopped looking at him to fit, to fill and meet all of my needs because I had this, this, you know, awareness that, no, we have got to work toward connection.

Dana Che [00:24:01]:
And that's really one of the biggest reasons that I wrote this book is because connection, intimacy, That's the goal. I believe that the Lord wants us not to just be physically intimate, but spiritual intimacy. And that's what I think is largely missing in couples today, is there's no spiritual intimacy. You know, we might go to church on Sunday together, we're not praying together, we're not reading the word together, we're not encouraging each other in our faith. I don't even know what you're believing God for in your life. And so that continues to pull us apart. And so then it's no wonder that we are also emotionally disconnected. And we also have no physical intimacy, and we also have no, no relational intimacy because we're not prioritizing the main thing, which is spiritual intimacy.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:24:46]:
I love that. The book she's referring to is Tried and True: Marriage Advice from 12 Imperfect Bible Couples. So we could talk for— so I could talk to you for so long on this. I love this so much. It is urgent need in Christian marriages to understand the principles that you have laid out in this book. Uh, what would you like to share before we wrap this up? Uh, just maybe to couples that are weary from waiting for the change, uh, what is their personal responsibility in healing their relationship? Those that feel emotionally, uh, distant, but are still committed, like just wrap us up. Like this is your hope.

Dana Che [00:25:31]:
Yeah, you know, Philippians 3 talks about knowing Christ and the fellowship of his sufferings. That is a very difficult scripture because we don't want to suffer, right? Not, not us Americans. Like, we don't have to suffer. We have a pill for everything. We don't like pain. And so we've raised up a whole generation of Christians who are anti-suffering. Anytime we suffer in any way, we feel like it's the devil. And this must not be the will of God.

Dana Che [00:26:01]:
But what about that scripture though? Like, what about— how do we, how do we know Jesus in the fellowship of his sufferings? Like, Jesus was betrayed, so when we're betrayed, could that be an invitation for us to know Jesus more? Jesus was rejected. When we're rejected, could that be an invitation for us to know Jesus more deeply? When we feel misunderstood, when we feel accused, all of those things I think are invitations for us to really know the Lord more. And so there's a couple of things that I included at the end of every chapter. One of them is a reflection question, and it's, what do these couples basically teach us about the Lord? Because that's our first love, right? Like, what does this teach me about you, Lord? And then the other thing is I've offered these conversation starters, because sometimes it's, it's hard to talk about these things. We don't really know how to bring the conversation up. And so I've included these conversation starters to kind of stop-start couples. But I really want couples to understand, if I could say one thing, is that God is for you. But he will use anything, even your trials, even your struggles, even your own disobedience.

Dana Che [00:27:07]:
He'll use all of that to get you to him. And so when we take our eyes off of our spouse— this is my husband. People ask my husband all the time, like, what changed it for you? Like, when did the light bulb go on? And he said, when Dana started really working on herself, and when she— like, the Lord became everything to her, I started working on myself. Because it's like, he doesn't be left in the dust, you know? I stopped focusing on all the stuff that he was doing. It didn't mean that I was okay with the stuff that he was doing, but I realized I cannot change him. I can't even change myself, Rhonda, right? I can't change him. And so, Lord, I am going to go all in with you Lord, change me, heal me, help me to be more like you. And I'm going to turn my husband over to you so that you can do what you need to do in his life.

Dana Che [00:27:57]:
And, and we're going to be tempted to look over and be like, is he changing yet? Nope, not yet. Keep your eyes on the Lord. Keep your eyes on the Lord. And that's really what I would just encourage couples today. Keep your eyes on Jesus.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:28:08]:
I love that. And that to me is a wonderful place for us to just springboard off of this to tell people where they can find you where they can find your book. Your book is Tried and True Marriage Advice from 12 Imperfect Biblical Couples. Your website, DanaChe, spelled C-H-E, so D-A-N-A-C-H-E.com. Uh, I'm assuming they can find resources on that site. You want to tell us what they can find there?

Dana Che [00:28:35]:
Yeah. So they can go directly to DanaChe.com, or if they go to TriedAndTrueMarriageBook.com, um, they can get the book there. I'm also giving away a free 5-day devotional. That's a companion to the book. So they can sign up for that devotional there. And then I'm on social media on all platforms as @MrsDanaShay. So @MrsDanaShay.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:28:57]:
Okay, great. Will, I would just love to have you pray us out of this conversation. I know that there are mediocre marriages, marriages in the middle that you talked about. I know there are marriages on the brink. I know there are marriages that can relate to even the infidelity that you had talked about. Pray for those couples, and then, um, we will just continue praying for them even as this show airs, because this is such an important part of transformation that I think people are just worn out, hopeless, and exhausted.

Dana Che [00:29:34]:
Yeah, I would love to. Thank you, Lord. Father, I thank you, Lord. Your word says that you are a very present help in times of need. Lord, we would be nothing without you. We are utterly dependent upon you, God. And I thank you, Lord God, that you know the sufferings, Lord. You know, your word says, God, that you were tempted in every way, but yet you did not sin.

Dana Che [00:29:57]:
You know what it's like to be falsely accused. You know what it's like to feel unheard and to feel misunderstood. And Lord God, I pray that, that we would truly get to know you when we suffer, that we would see that as an invitation to know Christ. That we would see our trials as an invitation to allow our faith to shine. God, I pray especially for those couples who are weary, who they have been praying, they have been waiting, and they don't see anything. Lord, I pray that you would lift up their eyes, Lord, that they would stop looking at their circumstances, that they would stop depending on whether their spouse is going to change or whether their marriages are going to improve, but that, Lord, you would give them a heavenly perspective, God, that you would give them a kingdom perspective. Lord God, I pray that the Holy Spirit would give them the courage, the grace, the wisdom that they need as they walk this out on a day-to-day basis. God, I pray that you would surround them with other believers who are strong in their faith, just like Moses, Lord, when he got tired in the battle, when he got weary, Lord, you sent him an Aaron and a Hur to lift his arms up.

Dana Che [00:31:06]:
And so, God, I pray that you would send these couples, these women, Lord God, people who would surround them and say, even though your faith might be weary, even though you might be struggling, we are here to lift you up and to support you. And so, Lord, we thank you that you are the God of the impossible. There is nothing that is too hard for you. We thank you, Lord, that you're faithful, and we trust you today. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:31:31]:
Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of Old Ladies Know Stuff. Please share this episode. You don't know the marriage behind closed doors that is struggling. They go to church, they smile, and then one day you find out they've separated, or one day you find out that for years they were suffering alone. Sometimes just posting an interview like this can reach into their life and offer them hope when you don't even know that they need it. You find, uh, @MrsDanaShay on her social media. But I encourage you to go to her website, danache.com. D-A-N-A-C-H-E dot com.

Rhonda Stoppe [00:32:11]:
You'll find all of her resources, her book, and her free, uh, what is it, a 5-day devotional? Yes. So thank you so much, Dana, for being with us. You've offered us so much hope and encouragement, and I pray that the Lord blesses this book exceedingly and abundantly as His word goes forth to transform lives.

Dana Che [00:32:29]:
Thanks so much, Rhonda.